tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post5926560109912251452..comments2023-05-15T07:29:55.403-07:00Comments on Fiddler's Edge: Nullsec Is Worth SavingUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-53329597026073094842013-03-25T08:39:30.967-07:002013-03-25T08:39:30.967-07:00For those who have not read it already, I recommen...For those who have not read it already, I recommend Kirith Kodachi's counter-proposal to the supercapital problem:<br /><br />http://www.ninveah.com/2013/03/eraser.htmlMord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-72967580067780470782013-03-25T05:09:19.847-07:002013-03-25T05:09:19.847-07:00Now I know how people feel when I do this. It is f...Now I know how people feel when I do this. It is frustrating to know you are both right and at the exact same time insane.<br /><br />Of course removing Super-Caps would do all the things. So would a lot of radical changes. A big hammer fixes problems but it also tends to break furniture and scare the cat.<br /><br />So, let's fix Null the easier way without removing an entire ship class. Ready?<br /><br />1. Nerf Titan bridges. You've already advocated for this one before, so I know you agree.<br /><br />2. Redistribute wealth. Oh look, it sounds like they are going to do this one.<br /><br />3. Scale Costs of operation. Few people seem to remember this was supposed to be part of Dominion. The larger the Alliance the lager the costs to operate it. A monetary way of managing the size of Empires. Realistic and sadly abandoned. But easy enough to implement.<br /><br />Mix those changes in with some Jump Bridge nerfs, some SOV Structure HP reductions, some healthy taxes, and some serious balancing of cap ship projection abilities ( so that caps become more of a home-front defense ) and you are well on your way.<br /><br />And give me a ship or ships that can stand up to them. And I'll help remove Supers from the game myself, the fun way! :)Rixx Javixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05484974346562922694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-51770206353274835552013-03-25T04:34:50.953-07:002013-03-25T04:34:50.953-07:00Of the two I would lament the loss of the bathwate...Of the two I would lament the loss of the bathwater more. Said baby is a ten ton monster that's tearing the house down and appears to be capable of doing nothing else. Mord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-49903699412684191952013-03-24T18:38:29.767-07:002013-03-24T18:38:29.767-07:00I look forward to it, KK. I understand where MF is...I look forward to it, KK. I understand where MF is coming from but I think it's throwing out the baby along with the bath water.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-83484336951563000632013-03-23T19:35:20.247-07:002013-03-23T19:35:20.247-07:00I accept the challenge and shall prepare a post fo...I accept the challenge and shall prepare a post for next week. o7Kirith Kodachihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12322297953184168725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-7109156828375156572013-03-23T15:34:54.947-07:002013-03-23T15:34:54.947-07:00@Kirith -
"And from my opinion, and probabl...@Kirith - <br /><br />"And from my opinion, and probably theirs, removing supercaps runs the potential of not only bad press but bad feelings with the players they consider 'enablers'".<br /><br />Ah yes, the enablers. I recall them. That's the same lot that turned nullsec into a theme park after years of railing against the evils of EVE being turned into a theme park.<br /><br />I notice those same "enablers" are pressing hard for Farms & Fields and Risk/Rewards (For the uninformed see last week's Farms and Fields: Metagame). But that's just them tilting at windmills, right? Crazy talk. I mean, it's not like CCP would ever break highsec just to make a bunch of "enablers" happy.<br /><br />And yet there they are, heads down and battling to affect the change they want, regardless of how radical it is. It must be very frustrating to watch.<br /><br />I'm open to less radical procedures. However, I haven't seen anything yet that will get the job done. It seems any nerf of supercapitals sufficient to drive meaningful change would offend the "enablers" as much as eliminating the class altogether.<br /><br />A satisfactory alternative that leaves supercaps in the game is possible. However, any solution is going to require that someone besides the "enablers" stand up, raise their voices and demand change. Shrugs aren't going to make it happen.<br /><br />Think of this as an opening position. My solution is quick, easy and effective. If CCP doesn't want to go that route they should find a solution to the supercap problem and and the resources to implement it. Mord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-45588410693458465302013-03-23T09:43:43.503-07:002013-03-23T09:43:43.503-07:00It's aimed enabling the ninja alliance to move...It's aimed enabling the ninja alliance to move in and establish beachheads in SOV and is crucial for new groups to challenge the current null sec power blocs. The current notification systems, combined with intel channels and bat phones allows the force projection power to be applied before any beachhead can be established. By limiting what they see you now force them to consolidate down to what they can see and therefore defend. <br /><br />It would also open up low sec moons for capture. While not every low sec group is capable of reinforcing a large POS, there are enough who have the capability to take and hold some of these moons opening up Tech and Neo so some of the non-null sec blocs. Snorkelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06988604270671591507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-75377382947687999492013-03-23T09:06:08.239-07:002013-03-23T09:06:08.239-07:00Now you're putting words in my mouth.
I never...Now you're putting words in my mouth.<br /><br />I never advocated for rolling over and refusing to advocate for what's good in the game. I've advocated for many unpopular positions over the years. However, I've tried to approach things with a realistic opinion of what CCP will and will not do. And from my opinion, and probably theirs, removing supercaps runs the potential of not only bad press but bad feelings with the players they consider "enablers"; the core of large null sec alliances whose influence extends far past their one/two/three/more accounts to all the people they fly with. We saw what happens with the Summer of Incarnage when the core of dedicated players stops logging in.<br /><br />Also, fundamentally CCP does not remove things that are problematic in the game. Rightly or wrongly, they (and many players) would see that as a sign of surrender and weakness. Thus things get changed or new things get added to counter the problems. It is the pattern and I see no reason why they would deviate from it.<br /><br />Thus, watching you tilt at windmills insisting that only removing supercaps will fix null sec and no other option is feasible is very frustrating; its a discussion that is pointless in having and I'm hoping to convince you to entertain other possibilities. <br /><br />There ARE other ways to combat the problem without *completely* alienating the people with supercaps. I will continue to advocate for those ways and listen to other proposals and point out what I think will and will not work.<br /><br />And my opinion is that simply removing the supercaps will not happen, and therefore will not work.Kirith Kodachihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12322297953184168725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-28029375492384131692013-03-23T09:04:08.521-07:002013-03-23T09:04:08.521-07:00@Dejara -
Again - a false equivalency when you t...@Dejara - <br /><br />Again - a false equivalency when you take a close look at the fleas and dogs.<br /><br />Highsec rewards harm no one and are not a barrier to play in highsec. As a proxy for the Blue Doughnut, James_315 merely wishes to infect highsec with rabies so his own dog's frothing at the mouth seems less objectionable. <br /><br />Supercapitals have ruined nullsec, created profound entry barriers to play there, and completely locked up nullsec's sov mechanics. <br /><br />That dog, as they say, won't hunt. Mord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-19502518565370338342013-03-23T08:42:42.061-07:002013-03-23T08:42:42.061-07:00@Kirith -
If voices like yours advocate rolling ...@Kirith - <br /><br />If voices like yours advocate rolling over, and refuse to step up and advocate for what's good for the game, you're absolutely right. <br /><br />Mord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-57570847796674857342013-03-23T08:33:48.311-07:002013-03-23T08:33:48.311-07:00But CCP will never ever remove Supercaps. *shrugs*...But CCP will never ever remove Supercaps. *shrugs* Kirith Kodachihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12322297953184168725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-21476110069247797952013-03-23T05:45:35.199-07:002013-03-23T05:45:35.199-07:00@Snorkel -
Good thoughts, but like so many solut...@Snorkel - <br /><br />Good thoughts, but like so many solutions offered here, it involves a lot of complex hand waving and dancing around the root cause of the problem in order to avoid addressing the root cause of the problem, which is the supercap itself. Eliminate the supercap, and all this becomes unnecessary. Mord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-58102408627854383902013-03-23T05:39:42.125-07:002013-03-23T05:39:42.125-07:00@Chanina -
Elegance is not a function of complex...@Chanina - <br /><br />Elegance is not a function of complexity or nuance. An elegant solution is one that displays the qualities of unusual effectiveness and simplicity.<br /><br />I believe the solution I've put forward meets that standard. Mord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-20546172345308218862013-03-23T04:07:27.766-07:002013-03-23T04:07:27.766-07:00I guess we all agree on the point that the current...I guess we all agree on the point that the current stagnation in 0.0 is bad and it is most likely the fault of super capitals.<br />Deleting them would solve the issue but its like putting out the light by shooting the bulb. It works but it isn't elegant.<br /><br />Reducing sov structures HPs would help a lot on its own. Reducing the force projection with supers would also help. Limiting there jump and bridge range to a few systems so you can use them for defense but more logistic needed to use them offensive.<br /><br />Change the jump mechanic, instantly jumping to any cyno is very powerful and maybe overpowered. Carriers and dreads jump on a beacon within a minute, Supercarrier and Titans need 4-5 minutes to focuse on the target cyno.<br />Result: you need a decent fleet to keep the cyno up until caps are there and the enemy has some more warning time. And the s-caps would be at risk for longer since they need stay tackle free for 5 minutes.<br /><br />Also a capital ship like a dread but with more firepower against s-caps would be helpful. built in low sec the "barbarians" can horde those and fight the supers.<br /><br />So would your solution work? Yes. Would it save 0.0? most likely but many players would quit.<br />Just hitting the delete button on some DB entries would be a fast solution but I don't think thats something ccp even considers.<br />The core problem of supers is still that you need more supers to counter them. And a new ship class would provide new skills for veterans and might solve the problem more elegant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-80232380600496963322013-03-22T20:51:06.072-07:002013-03-22T20:51:06.072-07:00/voice James_315
If hisec rewards are the dog, it&.../voice James_315<br />If hisec rewards are the dog, it's no never mind, 'cause the dog is rabid and we're well rid of it. <br /><br />If hisec rewards are the fleas, eliminating them doesn't cause the game to burn. Quite the opposite in fact.<br />/endvoiceDejara Thorishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371345296984972848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-25081769194547896192013-03-22T20:27:04.201-07:002013-03-22T20:27:04.201-07:00Not that it would solve the problem entirely but I...Not that it would solve the problem entirely but I dont think Supers should be e-war immune. <br />Give them ~50 warp strength and 150 sensor strength sure. Reduce the effect of tracking disruptors by 95% each sure. Id say do the same for TP's but what would be the point, the ships HUGE to begin with. Snorkelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06988604270671591507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-35444984075238068932013-03-22T20:23:03.572-07:002013-03-22T20:23:03.572-07:003) Remove all SOV related notification:
-Dama...3) Remove all SOV related notification:<br /> -Damage and Reinforce Notification<br /> -Hostile POS Notifications<br /> -SBU Notifications<br /> -Fuel Notifications<br /><br />Now they will have to manually check this. Logistics become a HUGE deal, especially for the large groups. A small alliance can easily manage 1-3 systems and a couple POS's. And if you cant, your not fit for null yet.Snorkelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06988604270671591507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-3003289811020061212013-03-22T15:43:22.174-07:002013-03-22T15:43:22.174-07:00Easy for you to say. Eve online revenues aren'...Easy for you to say. Eve online revenues aren't paying your salary. Probably much harder for CCP to say. If Kelduum's estimates are right (Based on his experience with EveUni), there are only 150k or so actual active players in Eve….it wouldn't take many dropping the game to seriously damage CCP's position.<br /><br />What I'd really like to see you write about is 1) why in heck does half of everyone seem to think that eve needs a high->low->null toon progression, while talking about how wonderful a sandbox is, while the progression concept itself is a theme-park idea? 2) A critical analysis of the various CSM 8 candidates in term of their actual economic literacy vs. their claims to such.Dejara Thorishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371345296984972848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-82462668387127045392013-03-22T15:16:10.983-07:002013-03-22T15:16:10.983-07:00@Dejara -
Nah. James 315 is a blue doughnut prox...@Dejara - <br /><br />Nah. James 315 is a blue doughnut proxy who's advocating making highsec a non-viable option for anyone but very new players. His slogan is meant to be ironic. <br /><br />I just want to eliminate supercapitals; A surgical change that will make nullsec a more viable option for a broad cross-section of players. <br /><br />As to small minority of players that would leave over supercapitals, they'd do the same over any supercap change that significantly altered the status quo, and the status quo is unsustainable. <br /><br />As Hilmar would say: "If the unfaithful would rage-quit, let them do so. And let not the gates of New Eden strike them 'pon the ass ere they leave."Mord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-771922483920176372013-03-22T14:56:19.554-07:002013-03-22T14:56:19.554-07:00@Dejara:
Lol - Funny analogy, but I don't th...@Dejara: <br /><br />Lol - Funny analogy, but I don't think it holds. <br /><br />If Supercapitals are the dog, it's no never mind, 'cause the dog is rabid and we're well rid of it. <br /><br />If supercapitals are the fleas, eliminating them doesn't cause the game to burn. Quite the opposite in fact. Mord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-77075863241090316922013-03-22T14:47:25.362-07:002013-03-22T14:47:25.362-07:00To clarify, your (and James 315's) proposals a...To clarify, your (and James 315's) proposals are like tossing your dog in the incinerator to get rid of his fleas…intense heat will eliminate fleas just fine, but the solution misses some important constraints.Dejara Thorishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371345296984972848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-32896073876825025092013-03-22T14:32:28.033-07:002013-03-22T14:32:28.033-07:00Mord, you channeling the Trek mirror universe vers...Mord, you channeling the Trek mirror universe version of James 315? Sounds a lot like something he would propose (but better written). It'd work technically and mechanically but I think you lose a lot of player base in the process.Dejara Thorishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371345296984972848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-40444543180764441372013-03-22T14:29:20.524-07:002013-03-22T14:29:20.524-07:00@Knug -
Those most affected by this change are t...@Knug - <br /><br />Those most affected by this change are the authors of nullsec's current dysfunction. Thus my sympathy for them goes only so far and I will not lose sleep over their discomfort. Some small pain of their part is inevitable if nullsec is to be saved.<br /><br />As to nerf versus outright elimination: Any nerf significant enough to save nullsec would ruin the supercapital from a utility to cost perspective. Outright elimination at least provides the owners with some recompense for the utility loss. Mord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-9277033824804510162013-03-22T14:18:46.757-07:002013-03-22T14:18:46.757-07:00I will say that I had often considered the elimina...I will say that I had often considered the elimination of supercaps as a way to fix what plagues nullsec.<br /><br />However, I am also aware that much wailing will occur with their elimination, but am unsure if that wailing would be essentially the same for the knocking back of supercaps to the current ratio of battleship:cruiser. <br /><br />Would the cry be louder for their elimination vs a severe nerfing ?<br /><br />If supercaps were to caps what battleships are to cruisers, then I think supercap pilots will still have something, and the big gap between those ship classes narrows.<br /><br />Having said that, I think the battleship to capital ship is too great, but that is another debate.<br /><br />Oh, and in regards to force projection. THAT answer is simple: Jumps and Bridges simply by-pass a single gate. One gate. And I'd still like to have both titan and black ops bridging formed when the bridging ship moves into the area to create the bridge. You want a fleet in system YYZ, then the titan goes in first, holding the door open for a fleet to follow. <br /><br />Nerfing supercaps down to just above regular caps and pulling back jumps/bridges to cut back on projection, vs eliminating supers all together. Which would help the game the most and which would result in the most damage to CCP ?Knug Lidihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08168621175894976018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-22157293810904386702013-03-22T12:59:32.032-07:002013-03-22T12:59:32.032-07:00@Kirith -
If no-one advocates for the best soluti...@Kirith -<br /><br />If no-one advocates for the best solution, it is a near certainty that the best solution will not be implemented.Mord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.com