tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post8237961136677774276..comments2023-05-15T07:29:55.403-07:00Comments on Fiddler's Edge: Carebears TriumphantUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-13429473479872299722012-08-15T03:50:44.884-07:002012-08-15T03:50:44.884-07:00Quod erat demonstrandumQuod erat demonstrandumMord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-90009298614776815202012-08-14T15:07:42.167-07:002012-08-14T15:07:42.167-07:00Yes, I guess I am!
With the exception of those tha...Yes, I guess I am!<br />With the exception of those that rent most all their space away so they can buy more PvP ships I guess that is what I'm saying.<br /><br />I've often proclaimed in my corp chat that 0.0 is full of bears, and I do kind of mean that. I live in Stain atm and roam a lot from there. I can't say the guys in -A- get any less cross with me when I stop them from carebearing by lingering in their systems then the Russians to the south do or that they are any more likely to attempt a response.<br />It's sadly extremely rare that they dock up and return in something to fight me (and I fly assault frigs, nothing fancy) so from personal experience I will certainly state most 0.0 residents seem uninterested in PvP most the time while getting quite cross if they can't finish their Haven/Sanctums!<br /><br />Of course I claim this from the limited perspective of somebody that rarely has more then 3 or 4 people fleeted.Kaeda Maxwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13954843678698092456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-35718117180697167872012-08-14T13:58:33.629-07:002012-08-14T13:58:33.629-07:00Kaeda -
I concur that PL doesn't want to hol...Kaeda - <br /><br />I concur that PL doesn't want to hold Sov. But that wasn't always the case and there are reasons for the change. It's not simply a matter of "Didn't want that space anyway." <br /><br />The decision to do without sov was prefaced by PL's having been booted from their space several times by different alliances. Now, it's possible that these experiences had nothing to do with PL's decision, but I doubt it. <br /><br />It certainly would have driven home the point that holding sov forced PL to fight in a manner that didn't leverage their strengths and provided their enemies a fixed point of attack. <br /><br />Now, having made the argument that holding is "only relevant to carebears" are you by extension making the case that those alliances presently holding sov are carebear alliances? <br /><br />;) Mord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-29366507152399247632012-08-14T07:54:01.707-07:002012-08-14T07:54:01.707-07:00That's going on the assumption they *want* to ...That's going on the assumption they *want* to hold SOV. Because let's be honest you do not need SOV to hold moons or to be in 0.0 or to PvP. <br /><br />You need SOV to build certain things (like supers) and for no other reason at all. If you genuinely do not have an interest in PvE all you need to do is secure some deals to give you access to Moons (or just have enough raw firepower to make the locals think twice about shooting your towers) for alliance level cash flow and somebody to sell you supers (if like PL you want to do supercap PvP).<br /><br />SOV is ultimate only actually relevant to carebears that need it to build things. Many of 0.0's highest rated 'elite pvp'ers' have ulimately no interest in SOV (Hydra, Outbreak, Born-2-Kill, Team Liquid etc etc etc).Kaeda Maxwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13954843678698092456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-13647742264557117852012-08-13T08:07:25.521-07:002012-08-13T08:07:25.521-07:00PL is very well organized when if comes to fleet P...PL is very well organized when if comes to fleet PvP. However they are specialists tightly focused in that area. <br /><br />They do not hold Sov and, since Dominion, have been unsuccessful at so doing. Like the lilies of the field, they toil not, neither do they spin. They are dependent upon selling their PvP skills to other alliances or ratting in client held or NPC space for the income needed to focus on their specialty. <br /><br />You'll note they are presently working for CFC and not the other way around. Thus, an elite nullsec PvP alliance (arguably the best fleet PvPers in game) is working for a nullsec bear alliance. Mord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-22823450606908572712012-08-13T05:13:20.272-07:002012-08-13T05:13:20.272-07:00Good comments, good thoughts.
No, the PvP/Carebe...Good comments, good thoughts. <br /><br />No, the PvP/Carebear divide is not an artificial construct. Blog posts decrying "carebear rot" as a primary contributor for Sov warfare alliance failscades were common back in 2010 when "Rise of the Carebears"(parts one and two) were written. It was a well documented point of division in the early "North/South" campaigns and the wars between the Drone Russian Federation and the Northern/Deklein Coalition wars. Posts and forum comments warning about a carebear empire in nullsec were commonplace after the fall of IT Alliance. <br /><br />We sometimes lose track of how much nullsec has changed since the Dominion Sov warfare system kicked in, drawing a large population of bears down to nullsec and requiring requiring nullsec alliances actively administer their space. Mord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-48279887216389303572012-08-13T03:36:47.881-07:002012-08-13T03:36:47.881-07:00Pretty sure this is not entirely new, one of the m...Pretty sure this is not entirely new, one of the main reasons Pandemic Legion has been successful for years now is because they had/have good bureaucrats as well as PvP'ers. <br /><br />Solar is extremely well organized internally as well which is why and how they prevailed, over xxxLegionxxx for as far as I can tell (as an outsider).<br /><br />But every successful and *lasting* empire in human history was build by a combination of warriors and bureaucrats. And the greatest (most well known) of histories conquerors tended to combine both in the same person (Napoleon, Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great, Constantine, Suleiman, Peter the Great the list goes on ;) ).<br />And since EVE is at it's core a social microcosm it's hardly surprising it's not much different.<br /><br />Anyway I see what you're getting at, but isn't this Elite-PvP/Carebear divide a rather artificial construct? How many PvP'ers outside the ultra-rich and PLEX-warriors are really 100% PvP'ers? <br /><br />Personally I maintain a modest industry empire, yet I define myself as a PvP'er but I could just as easily claim to be CareBear.<br />I've always found that the real difference in EvE is between people that accept that ultimately EvE is a *harsh* PVP game and people that refuse to accept this (to those people I do always pose the question; why on earth did you willingly install a 'friendly fire on no save havens PvP game' that is advertised as such...?)<br />Kaeda Maxwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13954843678698092456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-36350951797194883262012-08-13T02:34:38.770-07:002012-08-13T02:34:38.770-07:00Fiddler's Note: Pointy Sticks (author of the b...Fiddler's Note: Pointy Sticks (author of the blog of the same name) submitted a comment that, though approved, will not display for some reason. Until the software bug is resolved, I present his comment here:<br /><br />"Pointy Sticks August 9, 2012 - Small minds will never get it. Apparently, l'il mitenz' fanboys think no further or broader than the end of their nose. Like mittenz, CCP also has a policy, that when totaled, is also anti-high sec in an effort to get people to move to null. Making high sec shittier, which makes null look better in comparison, is a rather stupid way of dealing with the issue. It isn't going to accomplish much in the short term, and in the long term, it'll cost subscriptions. With people being who and what they are, especially in Eve, improving null sec is going to take a shit load of dedicated effort, by a small number of people, to an extended period of time, before the drooling sheep will slowly come on side." Mord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-65414392211100883552012-08-10T20:31:37.121-07:002012-08-10T20:31:37.121-07:00Interesting thought Stabs.Interesting thought Stabs.Mord Fiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734756410122516725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-85819613313760362142012-08-10T19:21:46.353-07:002012-08-10T19:21:46.353-07:00The balance between carebears and pvpers is what m...The balance between carebears and pvpers is what makes Eve a delightful game and needs to be handled with some care.<br /><br />I think I can provide some evidence that it was tilted too far and that's from ore prices.<br /><br />Before Inferno 1.2 miners got best isk from Arkonor, then Scordite, then Veldspar. Ore is distributed in Eve so that there are high end ores that are dangerous to mine. However there have been so many nullbears cheerfully mining out in the safety of deepest nullsec and so few casuals mining Veld one jump from Jita that Veld and Scordite are worth more than all bar the very best of dangerous space ore.<br /><br />That's because, rightly or wrongly, high sec players are feeling that mining is more dangerous than nullsec players. Now that's just not good balance.<br /><br />I was mining ore in my wormhole for a bit but stopped. It's moderately dangerous (I've lost one Hulk in the last 6 months) and I can't squeeze an orca in because it's a low end wormhole. I would earn more isk per hour in high than in w-space because so many people are mining in "dangerous" space and so few in safe space. It's out of whack.<br /><br />Suicide ganking should be a menace but not an industry. And certainly not an industry that's over-fished its waters.Stabshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08716211705647213383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8604973112865316634.post-46743989226405620422012-08-10T09:28:54.951-07:002012-08-10T09:28:54.951-07:00A case of art imitating life, indeed. Amazing how ...A case of art imitating life, indeed. Amazing how quickly social structures evolve into the familiar patterns of history, isn't it? It isn't a question of *if*,but how and when.<br /><br />The Gold Rule holds true in EVE as it has since time immemorial. Those that have the gold, make the rules.Adhar Khorinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01503107200745652007noreply@blogger.com